[MTBB] Eizouken ni wa Te wo Dasu na! – Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken! - 01 (BD 1080p)

Category:
Date:
2022-05-18 04:23 UTC
Submitter:
Seeders:
0
Information:
#MTBB on Rizon
Leechers:
2
File size:
1.1 GiB
Completed:
213
Info hash:
d3f1f7cb7016c667e978b7ee403365bf28375173
Let's talk about hardsubbing. No one hardsubs nowadays, except for Germans maybe. That's kinda weird, isn't it? As typesetting standards increase, you'd think that some groups would experiment with hardsubbing and the increased TS options it provides. But no one's taken the leap because the disadvantages are just too great. Let's break down the pros and cons of hardsubbing typesetting: **PROS** - Your TS appears the same to every viewer. - Your TS will never lag someone's player. - You can accomplish certain TS that is impossible with softsubs. - You can deband the TS! - May result in substantially reduced filesize, especially in the case of dual tracks. **CONS** - No one can take your TS and quickly slap it on a release with better video. - With softsubs, a fix to TS can take 30 seconds. With hardsubs, any fix requires you to reencode the release. - As a result, it's much less likely that TS fixes will be applied at all, bringing down the quality of releases. - In the case of After Effects typesetting, you've got to spend time coordinating the work of the encoder and the typesetters somehow. - Chroma subsampling means that TS will never perfectly match the softsubs it's encoded from. If we look at the above pros and cons, one thing that jumps out is that it makes a lot more sense to hardsub a BD release than a WEB release, since the benefit of portability isn't nearly as strong and the chance that something will need to be fixed is also lower. All this is to prepare you for the information that the TS in this release is hardsubbed. I like Eizouken a lot, and I like GJM's release of it a lot (partly because I'm proud of the work I contributed to it), but I haven't rewatched it because I watch anime on MPC-HC and I know that the typesetting will often break my player. And I'm not alone either—the viewer survey I did a while back showed that a lot of viewers are not using mpv. (Heck, GJM's TS even crashed mpv in at least one instance.) But even if one wants to hardsub, it's kinda hard to do correctly. FFmpeg is no good since it assumes TV.601 for the subtitle color matrix/range with apparently no option to change it, so the colors of the subtitles will be noticeably off. (When I was young and stupid, I made and released a hardsubbed version of Your Name that suffered from this problem.) One could just convert the subtitles to TV.601 before feeding them to ffmpeg, but that would result in slightly wrong colors at the "edges" of the colorspace. None of the vapoursynth subtitle renderers are any good either—assrender is completely broken, and subtext has subtle problems that are most apparent during slow zooms. Though it needn't be said, none of the vsfilter-based solutions are acceptable either, primarily because of vsfilter's own inferior behavior during slow zooms. **2023-11-24 update**: I learned that [this version](https://github.com/AmusementClub/assrender) of assrender is good for hardsubbing in vapoursynth. The only working subtitle renderer/encoder I could find, in fact, was mpv. So my workflow ended up being: encode lossless-ish x264 with vapoursynth filtering applied and use that to make TS fixes / blur changes, then encode lossless-ish x264 with mpv to hardsub the TS, then finally do the x265 encode. This is an extremely stupid process, but it results in hardsubs that are actually accurate to how the softsubs would display. Anyway, tl;dr -- when is MPC-HC going to finally add libass? [Comparisons of hardsubs vs softsubs](https://slow.pics/c/hS8twE8N) - perfect for luma, not perfect for chroma. [Comparisons of WEB vs BD](https://slow.pics/c/URhREU5j)

File list

  • [MTBB] Eizouken ni wa Te wo Dasu na! - 01 [849C6D11].mkv (1.1 GiB)
also obvious solution is don't waste time making typesetting that complicated because you'll never finish anything
If {\an8} was good enough for Abraham Lincoln it's good enough for me
Thanks!
tl;dr motbob continues to just steal my ideas a decade after I've left the scene
Ordered Chapters when?

motbob (uploader)

Trusted
> Ordered Chapters when? I mean, the ED *is* 400MB...
Is this Hatsuyuki fansubs?
Sometimes you gotta go back to actually move forward. And I don’t mean go back to reminisce or chase ghosts — I mean go back to see where you came from, where you been, how you got here. See where you’re goin’. I know there are those who say you can’t go back. Yes, you can. You just have to look in the right place.
This is like making Windows XP-compatible software just because there's a couple of thousands of people who still use XP.
Correction: It's not just germans that still hardsub. Many non-english scenes still do to some extent.
Say what you will about hardsubs, they're not ass
i was also a mpc-hc diehard until 6 months ago. guess what, half of the releases I downloaded being broken convinced me to make the switch. The solution to this problem isn't trying to make releases mpc-hc compatible, it's to make more releases broken and recommend mpv with a link to one of the many retard-proof guides available. Honestly I kinda suspect the only reason this release exists is to spite people who want to watch non-cancerous encodes.
Italians also hardsub, even on simulcast shows (Popteamepic on VVVVID comes to mind). Are there any edits to the subs?
Anyone knows where I can get old German / Spanish fansubbed releases. Seeds don't work here. Like a website or xdcc bot. There used to be a Russian website but when Corona was killing sites everywhere, it also went down.
german fansubs have been dead for a good while
>also obvious solution is don’t waste time making typesetting that complicated because you’ll never finish anything This. Also some spanish fansubs still use hardsubs for typesetting. They only use softsubs for dialogue. If you're going to hardsub at least do it that way I guess, but also don't overcomplicate stuff, fansubbing is dead as it is, don't make it harder.
@motbob First, thanks for the explanation of color discrepancies. I have seen them as well, and I had no explanation. Second, I don't think switching players is a way out of current difficulties. Someone submitted a simple sample from Yawara that was "broken" on mpv. It played fine on MPC-HC (with xysubfilter), VLC, and, as it turned out, mpv's most recent version too. Since the breakup of the "CCCP concensus" more than six years ago, it's been "caveat viewer". Viewers are left to sort out difficulties that occur because of the different players groups use in their work. Finally, I don't find the differences among the screenshots sufficiently compelling to justify hardsubs and the extra effort they entail, but I am not a "professional" typesetter and don't see fine details. In any case, thanks for the effort.
The absence of differences implies they are good because the whole point is making the subs work since this particular series had such huge .ass files that some people couldn't load them properly even on MPV. Hard subs bypass this restriction. Moreover, I think all reputable subgroups are currently supporting MPV only. Some stuff also works on other players. I've seen the biggest problems with old releases that could not work well on MPV, but that's about it.
so, is there any after effects typesetting in this release? hardsubbing pure ass is retarded. just use a better player

GSR

User
It broke new ground.
you know what, i'm gonna rant a little more about this because i feel sufficiently pissed off enough to do so. first of all, let's talk extremely fucking obvious cons you forgot to mention, cons that are probably some of the biggest reasons rational people abandoned any form of hardsubs 10 fucking years ago. - Hardsubs literally delete content from the show. Everything that is behind that text is now gone forever, impossible to screenshot or even see. This is a pretty fucking major issue, and speaks to the hubris of the TSer that they think their subtitles *deserve* to be shown over the show's original art. In this torrent you went with only hardsubs on TS, which feels both less and more egregious at the same time. Lesso because people can just download NCOPs/NCEDs if they want screenshots of that, but moreso because the OPs/EDs usually have the most effort put into them. In this case the whole show is dripping with effort and love for animation, so the latter point also has a duality to it. Good: you're not necessarily tainting the best part of the art. Bad: you're still tainting a beautiful passion project with your own "art". - You can't turn off hardsubs. Similar to my last con, but has a little niche relevance besides the tainting of the art. Sometimes multilingual people wanna download a release and not always have the English subtitles on. In the case of signs, maybe someone learning Japanese wants to see what the original sign said. Sometimes KFX can be too distracting for people who just wanna watch the OP. Probably some accessibility bullshit too, idk I'm not the guy who cares about that but someone else might. I wouldn't be surprised if people bring up SCY's AOT midcard replacements in response to these points. Well guess what, I fucking hate that too. It's a minor blemish on his otherwise amazing encodes, something that I didn't feel like necessarily complaining about (and something I didn't learn about till well past the point it was worth complaining in his comment sections over).
second of all, let's talk about MPC-HC. Stop using it. Your arguments in support of it are all arguments that can be made for VLC. Now that I mentioned it I wouldn't be surprised if you slide down that slope and defend VLC too. Oh well. I guarantee you any possible reason you can think of to keep using MPC-HC, MPV has an equivalent, more than likely a better version of it. Maybe MPC-HC's simplicity makes it less time consuming to use, but the advantages of MPV well outweigh that, and you can probably do stuff just as quickly if not faster than you could with MPC-HC if you learn how to properly use MPV. I know you aren't braindead, motbob. In fact, you probably know how to work MPV much better than I do. Please, do me a favor and explain why you want to keep using MPC-HC using arguments that couldn't also be used for people that wanna keep using VLC.
mpv(dot)net is mpv but idiot proof and everyone should use it
> Anyway, tl;dr – when is MPC-HC going to finally add libass? Not sure if viable, but this fork exists: https://github.com/Masaiki/xy-VSFilter Still, I am confused about why anyone would want to still use MPC-HC instead of mpv and any of it's gui forks.
>Still, I am confused about why anyone would want to still use MPC-HC instead of mpv and any of it’s gui forks. madVR tone mapping and displaying DVD menus are about the only things I find MPC-HC useful for nowadays, but for everything else MPV all the way.
MTBB-Minis Eizouken hardsubbed when?

len

User
@ap1234 relax dawg nobody really gives a shit
dudes will literally create a 3-stage hardsub pipeline rather than ~~going to therapy~~ using mpv

GSR

User
@Kevinw hardsub episode 10 or face a boycott

motbob (uploader)

Trusted
> second of all, let’s talk about MPC-HC. Stop using it. Your arguments in support of it are all arguments that can be made for VLC. Now that I mentioned it I wouldn’t be surprised if you slide down that slope and defend VLC too. Oh well. I guarantee you any possible reason you can think of to keep using MPC-HC, MPV has an equivalent, more than likely a better version of it. Maybe MPC-HC’s simplicity makes it less time consuming to use, but the advantages of MPV well outweigh that, and you can probably do stuff just as quickly if not faster than you could with MPC-HC if you learn how to properly use MPV. I know you aren’t braindead, motbob. In fact, you probably know how to work MPV much better than I do. Please, do me a favor and explain why you want to keep using MPC-HC using arguments that couldn’t also be used for people that wanna keep using VLC. I don't think my own personal reasons for using MPC-HC are super relevant here. I'm not gonna pretend I have a good reason for not switching to mpv. I don't. But if I switch to mpv, that's not going to change the fact that a lot of other people use MPC-HC and presumably would like to enjoy GJM's Eizouken. As far as saying that the same arguments could be made for VLC support, yes, that's 100% true. If someone VLC-ified a release of mine by simplifying/an8ing typesetting, I wouldn't have anything negative to say to that. It's good that there are different releases out there that meet different needs.

motbob (uploader)

Trusted
> Not sure if viable, but this fork exists: > https://github.com/Masaiki/xy-VSFilter I installed it, observed that the first sign I tried differed heavily from mpv, and uninstalled it.
>also obvious solution is don’t waste time making typesetting that complicated because you’ll never finish anything GJM actually ignoring all these unreadable \fs2 signs? No way!
![mpc-hc](https://i.imgur.com/ExgbqTB.jpg)
I'm normally against hardsubs but GJM's Eizouken makes my media player its bitch.
*munches on popcorn*
Want some more? 🍿
Man wake up and choose violence
this is retarded
I've been using the default-settings install of K-Lite MPC for like the last 15 years and can't remember the last time it ever crashed or was unable to render something correctly. And the few times something wouldn't play (years and years ago), you just open up VLC for that specific movie/episode and the problem is solved.
Hardsubs are the way to go. No more clicking a subtitle preference, just shove it down your throat whether you like it or not.
\>the TS in this release is hardsubbed ![](https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-1izkebM3cqeF0hcO-uo8bjQ-t500x500.jpg)
Based Bob This will be the release I will archive Also k-lite keeps updating the components that people claim "are out of date" still <https://codecguide.com/changelogs_full.htm>
Oh, I relate with motbob's point completely. I have a perhaps irrational aversion to mpv. It's kind of similar to the kind of aversion I had towards VLC some 15-ish years ago when it was the de-facto standard video player, and the same aversion I have towards Linux and all that kind of software for the people who love fiddling with software per se (rather than just getting things done with it). It just feels bad to use, and I'm at the age when I want to avoid all this autistic self-serving power user bullshit that feels intent on just wasting my time on jumping through hoops for some of the simplest things when it could be avoided just fine. The other issue is that I like to watch my Japanese animes on a tablet on my bed, and some of the more TS-heavy releases are liable to crash MX Player or slow it down to a slideshow, and I have to go sit at my desk. So while I do prefer and evangelize fansubs to my less involved friends exactly for the effort their authors put into offering the best viewing experience, it also often feels like busy work to set everything up correctly just so you could start enjoying that effort in the first place, and most of my friends are similarly at the age where they don't want to bother when they just want to relax watching a cartoon in a way that is comfortable for them. They're willing to sacrifice the purity of viewing experience for the sake of convenience, and I can't blame them. Not everyone wants to go through a tea ceremony when they just want to drink tea. So at this point, having hardsubbed TS feels like a perfectly valid compromise for both of these issues I'm having, so I'm 100% on board. Do your damnedest, motbob.
\> In the case of After Effects typesetting, you’ve got to spend time coordinating the work of the encoder and the typesetters somehow. It's just a bit more work. Usually the typesetter is giving you the frames (startframe-endframe) of every scene he needs and a script just encodes them into lossless .mov (or .avi) from video source. There is also a script that outputs you the finished commands for inserting them into Avisynth/Vapoursynth for the final encode. Yes, overall the encoder has to wait for the typesetter finishing his job. However, he can already filter everything beforehand, so it's just the encoding time with x264/x265 left. \>No one can take your TS and quickly slap it on a release with better video. Yeah, that's sadly the biggest and most annoying disadvantage. For example, if the fansub group is only doing a TV/WEB release and not a BD release later. Nice typeset and all doesn't matter if you're stuck to watch Tokyo MX TV releases :(
Even when mpv should be used over MPC-HC or VLC anytime, there is still the fact that you also need a decent PC for handling heavy typeset. Even my PC isn't actually that bad, playing on a 4k TV (I like my subtitles sharp, so it also scales typeset) can sometimes result in mpv lagging when the typeset is too heavy. I actually don't mind a combination like that, some german groups called it "hybrid subs" when ts and kfx are hardsubbed, but dialogue subtitles are still softsub. Thanks

motbob (uploader)

Trusted
Yeah, doesn't make any sense whatsoever to hardsub dialogue, in my view.
Literally just use xysubfilter with mpc-hc and it's almost as good as mpv. And it is without the autism required to configure mpv into something usable. It would also be interesting if you rendered the TS with an alpha channel and could somehow play it on top of the actual video. I'm not sure any player can support that.
I wonder how people are so retarded that have problems configuring MPV. I am one of them and even then I could do easily do it.

len

User
It's not so much having problems configuring it as it's just tedious to configure. Something can be a tedious without necessarily being difficult. Minimalism for the sake of minimalism is retarded. I use MPC-HC & watch fansubs with TS constantly, and never have any problems that impact my experience viewing.
It literally requires you 5 mins at most. You can mostly copy-paste someone else's setup and be done with it. People definitely are not using MPV for minimalism as a primary reason either.

len

User
"It literally requires you 5 mins at most." This largely depends upon your use-case. "People definitely are not using MPV for minimalism as a primary reason either." You would be surprised. Maybe you're not along with others here, but I've most certainly seen it given as a pro for it. And either way, that point wasn't regarding what people use it for, it was regarding mpv itself.
I'm feeling really low-maintenance right now cause I have been running mpv unconfigured right of the box for years, and it just worked. Without fiddling up with codecs/renderers/filters, it plays things older players are having trouble with. I event started recommending it to avid PotPlayer and VLC users when they were having issues - "just download and open mpv.exe and drop the file there" and it usually resolved things. Way easier than telling to install/update the codec pack and try specific things in their player settings. During the last year I finally copied someone's config, and I guess it became nicer, dunno, since I don't have the eye for this, mostly I can notice that srt font is really good now (Gandhi Sans). So I have mixed feelings about anyone telling that you HAVE to configure mpv to use it. I guess indeed it depends on use-cases... I can understand not liking or knowing the default hotkeys, but GUIs like mpv.net solve it, along with audio and sub priority and stuff. And there's even a GUI that aims to reproduce most of the interface and functionality of MPC-HC while using libmpv - https://github.com/mpc-qt/mpc-qt. There's also graphical config file generators like Glow. What is curious is that mpv's configurability (and embeddability) is what indirectly made me use it as my main player daily. Cause I watch most videos either via Plex or via Syncplay with a friend: Syncplay has probably the most feature compatibility with mpv of all players, and Plex is already running on mpv, but has a really intrusive desktop playback UI that hates subtitles+pausing+screenshots, so I discovered Plex MPV Shim player to open in vanilla mpv instead (while keeping progress, intro-skipping and autoplay, unlike other external players solutions out there). I might still be using MPC-HC or PotPlayer if it wasn't for that couple of software. I guess after all we mainly prefer the thing that we've used to over time.
To stay on topic, I can understand hardsubbing the TS (not the dialogue), I think it's actually done a lot officially in countries that localize things. About 3 years ago I had "fun" searching for 8-bit anime releases to play on a low end machine (often had to remux fansubs with different raws), and then some fullscreen TS effects were still slowing it to a crawl, but I've always felt it was a corner case. It won't make much sense for hardware compatibility since there's always those old devices that won't display main dialogue properly anyway. I guess TS hardsub might be fine as a second option - with all the sources also available separately. The results of motbob's workflow are impressive as an experiment, but it probably sounds too consuming to be integrated into the usual fansubbing process.
I want to see Interruptor set this up at a college party on someone's laptop, or their parent for watching some movie
I don't think that's the use case of a nyaa user. That being said, even MPV out of the box works just fine.
**appreciation* ![Zoro-praying-124](https://i.postimg.cc/bJqFf6DM/Zoro-praying-124.png)
I like hard subbed TS for extremely heavy signs that lag players and have bad compatibility, but anything basic should never be hard subbed. I use MPV on a fast 5950X+RTX3080 and even with blending subtitles to the video res instead of my 4k desktop res, some TS still lag badly. That being said, heavy typesetting pushes people to make the subtitle renderers faster, one day I bet we will get some formats that can handle almost any difficult typesetting without major slowdown, and when that happens we can't convert typesetting that was hard subbed into new formats or benefit from the speed improvements. The size saving is nice, but as drives increase in size makes less of a difference.